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Hammerandnails
Bronze Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 30
Location: southern California
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Chris-An Ordinary Fool
Diamond Member
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Posts: 2024
Location: Sunny Southern Florida
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Mr. Guder
New Member
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 20
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, UK
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 | Posted: Mon 11/17/08 9:56 am
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Yes, I agree that the list is a tad bit flawed. The phrase "lacking in perspective" springs to mind....
Any music poll that places the likes of Mariah Carey, Christina Aguilera and Luther Vandross above Karen Carpenter cannot be taken seriously.
Also, I know Rolling Stone is a rock magazine, but c'mon - how can a "Greatest Singers Of All Time" poll NOT include Frank Sinatra, Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Bing Crosby, Billie Holiday, Nat King Cole, or Judy Garland to name just a few.
A more accurate description of this poll would probably be "The Most Over-rated Singers Of All Time." |
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Dave
Crayola Member
Joined: 21 Apr 2002
Posts: 7732
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| Posted: Mon 11/17/08 10:18 am
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| Mr. Guder wrote: | | ...A more accurate description of this poll would probably be "The Most Over-Rated Singers Of All Time"... |
With Burton Cummings (of the Guess Who) not on the list, (just to name ONE example) and, yes, Karen Carpenter ranking at #94...,
(94...?!?!?!?!?!?!) 
Then, yes, this List, like most other ones published in ROLLING STONE, as well as in similar publications, which I've seen of this nature, over the years, are pure dross...
Oh, well, at least according to one of those who compiled this "Greatest Singers Top-100", The Doors' Jim Morrison is a better singer, than--...  
Dave |
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Mike Blakesley
Montana Movie Maven & Moderator
Joined: 13 Feb 2002
Posts: 5962
Location: Forsyth MT
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| Posted: Mon 11/17/08 10:21 am
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| Quote: | | Any music poll that places the likes of Mariah Carey, Christina Aguilera and Luther Vandross above Karen Carpenter cannot be taken seriously. |
In Rolling Stone it can, precisely for the reason you gave - it's a rock magazine (or more accurately these days, a pop magazine) and besides, all of those singers are held in very high regard.
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Mike B. |
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Hammerandnails
Bronze Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 30
Location: southern California
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| Posted: Mon 11/17/08 11:04 am
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| and where is KD Lang????? hmmph! |
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Dave
Crayola Member
Joined: 21 Apr 2002
Posts: 7732
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| Posted: Mon 11/17/08 12:00 pm
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| Hammerandnails wrote: | | And where is KD Lang????? Hmmph! |
Er, that's kd lang... (Yeah, she spells her name in all-small letters...) Agree that she is more than worthy of being included, too...
Might I add, in the "transition from Rock to Pop magazine", that what singers Rolling Stone consider holding in high regard, is obviously about making money, while also reflecting the public's poor-taste...
Dave |
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Mike Blakesley
Montana Movie Maven & Moderator
Joined: 13 Feb 2002
Posts: 5962
Location: Forsyth MT
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| Posted: Mon 11/17/08 2:37 pm
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Update: I just got my RS in the mail. The 100 Greatest Singers article is a POLL, not an editorial; the rankings were voted on by musicians and other industry people.
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Mike B. |
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JMAR5
Platinum Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 237
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
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| Posted: Mon 11/17/08 3:06 pm
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| Mr. Guder wrote: | Yes, I agree that the list is a tad bit flawed. The phrase "lacking in perspective" springs to mind....
Any music poll that places the likes of Mariah Carey, Christina Aguilera and Luther Vandross above Karen Carpenter cannot be taken seriously.
Also, I know Rolling Stone is a rock magazine, but c'mon - how can a "Greatest Singers Of All Time" poll NOT include Frank Sinatra, Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Bing Crosby, Billie Holiday, Nat King Cole, or Judy Garland to name just a few.
A more accurate description of this poll would probably be "The Most Over-rated Singers Of All Time." |
You left out Sarah Vaughan, Carmen McRae, Angela Bofill and Gino Vannelli.
I still think Gino is probably the best male singer Ive ever heard |
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DJS
Bronze Member
Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 48
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK
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| Posted: Mon 11/17/08 4:33 pm
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I'm sorry but this list is hopeless, absolutely terrible, not just from Karen's perspective but many many others
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David Small |
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newvillefan
Diamond Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 685
Location: Gibraltar
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| Posted: Mon 11/17/08 4:43 pm
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I agree. I don't regard it as even close to definitive. So many classic artists so low down or not featured at all.
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Stephen |
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Harry
Moderator
Joined: 21 Jan 2002
Posts: 8217
Location: A&M Corner Southern Command in Sunny Central Florida
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| Posted: Mon 11/17/08 4:52 pm
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I pay no attention to Rolling Stone, and even less to their lists. Any list of best singers that doesn't include Frank Sinatra is bogus anyway.
Harry
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milwaukeeburt
Bronze Member
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Mon 11/17/08 6:53 pm
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| The fact that Karen is on the Rolling Stone list at all is a remarkable accomplishment. Maybe if a publication like Entertainment Weekly did a similar poll among people they consider to be "industry insiders", Karen would be top 10. Which is where I think she belongs on any list re. best singers, with kd right behind her. There are so many similarities between the two-- rich alto, amazing range, extraordinary phrasing. They're definitely one and two on my list. Saw kd recently, she made me cry and feel and want to reach out to those who love me and those I love and be more caring and kind. Is there anything more important in life? I think not. So congratulations to Karen for this amazing accomplishment, more than 30 years after she was at her best-- I'm referring to Horizon, which even today, overwhelms me with its haunting beauty and power to make me reach out to those who love me, and those I love. |
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thetijuanataxi
Ruby Member
Joined: 22 Apr 2002
Posts: 519
Location: Argyle, TX
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| Posted: Mon 11/17/08 8:20 pm
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How about Tom Jones, Engelbert Humperdinck, Olivia Newton John, Linda Ronstadt, Dean Martin, Johnny Mathis, Barbra Streisand, Bobby Darin, George Strait, Petula Clark, Anne Murray, Ronnie Milsap etc. That list was really pathetic. Even more so if it was voted on by musicians. They should have some knowledge of what good music is.
David |
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mstaft
Diamond Member
Joined: 22 Jun 2002
Posts: 752
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| Posted: Mon 11/17/08 8:35 pm
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kd lang is no where near Karen, IMHO. There is just something about her voice that is not of the same caliber.
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Check out my blog: http://www.insightsandsounds.blogspot.com |
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Mike Blakesley
Montana Movie Maven & Moderator
Joined: 13 Feb 2002
Posts: 5962
Location: Forsyth MT
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| Posted: Mon 11/17/08 11:37 pm
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In the interest of people knowing what they're commenting about, here is the entry about Karen from Rolling Stone:
| Quote: | 94 | Karen Carpenter
Born: March 2nd, 1950; died February 4th, 1983
Key Tracks: "Close to You," "Goodbye to Love," "We've Only Just Begun"
Influenced: Sheryl Crow, Kim Gordon
Karen Carpenter's white-bread image and sad fate — she died of anorexia in 1983 — have overshadowed her chocolate-and-cream alto voice. But other performers know the score: Elton John called her "one of the greatest voices of our lifetime," and Madonna has said she is "completely influenced by her harmonic sensibility." Impossibly lush and almost shockingly intimate, Carpenter's performances were a new kind of torch singing, built on understatement and tiny details of inflection that made even the sappiest songs sound like she was staring directly into your eyes. Still, she's a guilty pleasure for many. "Karen Carpenter had a great sound," John Fogerty once told Rolling Stone, "but if you've got three guys out on the ballfield and one of them started humming [a Carpenters song], the other two guys would pants him." |
And here is how they created the poll:
Each voter was asked to list his or her 20 favorite vocalists from the rock era, in order of their importance. Those ballots were recorded and weighted according to methodology developed by the accounting firm of Ernst & Young, which then tabulated and verified the results for Rolling Stone.
There is a list of all the voters here:
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/24161972/page/101
The title of the poll notwithstanding, they did restrict it to the rock era. That would disqualify a lot of the classic singers named above. Dean Martin is really cool, but rock & roll? No.
As far as people "knowing what good music is?" That's such a personal thing. Music reviewers aside, nobody except the individual listener can really answer that question. I think Brasil '66 is good music. But there are plenty of people around who would ask me to please, turn that noise down!
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Mike B. |
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Hammerandnails
Bronze Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 30
Location: southern California
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| Posted: Tue 11/18/08 2:12 am
| | Subject: kd lang - some thoughts |
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"kd lang is no where near Karen, IMHO. There is just something about her voice that is not of the same caliber."
I just have to differ with you on kd lang not being "no where" to Karen -
kd lang's tambre, her warmth AND the way she is recorded has ALWAYS pulled me through when I longed to hear some some new Karen at different points in my life -
kd did an album called "DRAG" and her version of 'Theme from "Valley of the Dolls" ' is just as warm as Karen's "I Can't Make Music" or "This Masquerade". Another fine example would be her full "Ingenue" CD with special attention to "The Mind of Love" - Honestly, kd is as close to Karen as I am ever going to hear in this lifetime !
In fact - while Richard is doing this comeback - it might behoove him to get in touch with kd. These two brilliant talents might make a truly Grammy - Winning CD/album doing a Bacharach-David catalogue tribute. |
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Harry
Moderator
Joined: 21 Jan 2002
Posts: 8217
Location: A&M Corner Southern Command in Sunny Central Florida
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| Posted: Tue 11/18/08 5:29 am
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I figured it was a "rock-era" poll. As I said, if it didn't include Sinatra near the top, it's suspect to begin with. I'm not a huge Sinatra fan, but I realize his immense talent. Still, he did have some hits in the '60s which is firmly in the rock era.
Harry
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mstaft
Diamond Member
Joined: 22 Jun 2002
Posts: 752
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| Posted: Tue 11/18/08 9:19 am
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"In fact - while Richard is doing this comeback - it might behoove him to get in touch with kd. These two brilliant talents might make a truly Grammy - Winning CD/album doing a Bacharach-David catalogue tribute."
You could be right- and maybe I'd hear her in a new light. Good idea!
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Dave
Crayola Member
Joined: 21 Apr 2002
Posts: 7732
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| Posted: Wed 11/19/08 5:49 am
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| Mike Blakesley wrote: | | ...There is a list of all the voters here... |
Yes, and some of the names make this poll all the more heart-wrenching, and that's the majority of these musicians/singers/music industry people here being "the good ones" whom you'd think would gear this list towards their greatness... Well, yes, I was aware of their names at the end of each entry and from there saw such irony...
| Harry wrote: | | ...I'm not a huge Sinatra fan, but I realize his immense talent... ...He did have some hits in the '60s which is firmly in the rock era... |
Yes, and Pop Music altogether began with his "phrasing", too... Surely he belongs somewhere on this list, just for "inventing popular song as we know it"... Nancy Sinatra, too, has tried to also have a more Rock-based career, and overcame an admirable amount of difficulty trying to follow her father's footsteps, making at least almost an impact worthy of recognition...
A list of Two-Hundred or Three-Hundred, although maybe a tad unrealistic, would certainly put a little more of our forgotten figures back in the spotlight and with the accuracy maybe turn the readers of R/S towards some "real talent"... Their legacy is what gave way to the careers of today...
Dave |
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JMAR5
Platinum Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 237
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
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| Posted: Thu 11/20/08 12:27 pm
| | Subject: Re: kd lang - some thoughts |
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| Hammerandnails wrote: | "kd lang is no where near Karen, IMHO. There is just something about her voice that is not of the same caliber."
I just have to differ with you on kd lang not being "no where" to Karen -
kd lang's tambre, her warmth AND the way she is recorded has ALWAYS pulled me through when I longed to hear some some new Karen at different points in my life -
kd did an album called "DRAG" and her version of 'Theme from "Valley of the Dolls" ' is just as warm as Karen's "I Can't Make Music" or "This Masquerade". Another fine example would be her full "Ingenue" CD with special attention to "The Mind of Love" - Honestly, kd is as close to Karen as I am ever going to hear in this lifetime !
In fact - while Richard is doing this comeback - it might behoove him to get in touch with kd. These two brilliant talents might make a truly Grammy - Winning CD/album doing a Bacharach-David catalogue tribute. |
kd is a good singer, but there are a lot of really great female singers out there. Just to name a few:
Diane Schur
Dianne Reeves
Angela Bofill
Patti Austin
Pauline Wilson
Linda Eder
Marilyn Scott
Kevyn Lettau
lates ones like:
Sarah Vaughan
Carmen McRae |
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Mike Blakesley
Montana Movie Maven & Moderator
Joined: 13 Feb 2002
Posts: 5962
Location: Forsyth MT
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| Posted: Thu 11/20/08 1:26 pm
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Christine McVie.
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Mike B. |
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Dave
Crayola Member
Joined: 21 Apr 2002
Posts: 7732
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| Posted: Thu 11/20/08 3:54 pm
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And for me, Marilyn Manson and Ru Paul...!!! 
Dave
Last edited by Dave on Fri 11/21/08 12:32 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Mike Blakesley
Montana Movie Maven & Moderator
Joined: 13 Feb 2002
Posts: 5962
Location: Forsyth MT
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| Posted: Thu 11/20/08 7:04 pm
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Yeah, those are some great female singers. 
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Mike B. |
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Dave
Crayola Member
Joined: 21 Apr 2002
Posts: 7732
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| Posted: Thu 11/20/08 10:16 pm
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Well, for favorite male singers, then, it would be Bobby Goldsboro and Mac Davis...
Dave |
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